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Post by SussexSoleil on Feb 7, 2017 9:25:24 GMT
Please post any questions you have here.
I will try to start answering them late this evening (GMT), or use them to create new Threads if they are of general interest.
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Post by tim608103 on Feb 8, 2017 8:51:34 GMT
Will there be a specific webpage where we can browse all of the translations of the Communitytranslation community? Also, will our SmartCAT accounts somehow be linked to Communitytranslation/Project X within the SmartCAT website, or will we all have regular freelancer accounts?
Thank you very much again for your work in organising this.
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Post by reboot on Feb 8, 2017 12:32:04 GMT
Will there be an unlimited amount of texts to be translated at one time? One problem of DL Immersion was that many texts were never totally translated nor corrected.
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Post by SussexSoleil on Feb 9, 2017 0:25:30 GMT
Will there be a specific webpage where we can browse all of the translations of the Communitytranslation community? Also, will our SmartCAT accounts somehow be linked to Communitytranslation/Project X within the SmartCAT website, or will we all have regular freelancer accounts? If you are logged in as a Project Manager (PM), you can see all the Projects and uploaded documents. If you are a translator (what SmartCAT calls an "Assignee") you can only see the translation project(s) you are assigned to by a PM. Because SmartCAT is designed for commercial use, I guess LSPs (translation bureaux) would not want freelance translators snooping around their other projects in case they start poaching their clients or simply to maintain the confidentiality of the client's work that may contain commercially sensitive material. Therefore PMs will have to advertise their translation project here, in much the same way as is done for Google Docs As to your second question, the accounts on Communitytranslation and SmartCAT are completely independent, although you can use the same email address to log in to both. To initially sign up to SmartCAT, you need to PM me your preferred email address, or I can use the one you have registered in Communitytranslation. You will then receive an invite to log in to SmartCAT, either as a PM or as a translator. When PMs assign you to projects, you will receive further invites from SmartCAT. |
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Post by SussexSoleil on Feb 9, 2017 1:00:22 GMT
Will there be an unlimited amount of texts to be translated at one time? One problem of DL Immersion was that many texts were never totally translated nor corrected. Well, a Project Manager (PM) can upload any number of documents, but I hope they will be sensible. There are better tools in SmartCAT for tracking progress and ensuring translations are reviewed, that the PM can use. These include setting calendar deadlines and monitoring the status of translated and edited (corrected) sections. They can also divide a document into sections and allocate different translators and editors to each section, giving all parts of the document equal focus. Numbers and untranslatable names can be auto-copied to the target document, so some the the tedious work has gone. I suspect the "henhouse syndrome*" we saw in Duolingo was caused by wanting to score as many XP and Translation tier points as possible. So documents were uploaded and the easy bits, like headings and lists, were "translated" with no real interest in the content. It was also noticeable that the early sentences were more likely to get reviewed, scoring the translator points towards the next Translation tier, so later passages get left. I don't think the weasels will be invited to join further projects once word gets out, and anyway, there is no incentive to behave like that here. * A term applied to the way predators, like foxes, sometimes kill more animals than they need for food, leaving the unfinished carcasses behind. |
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Post by lakapsule44 on Feb 11, 2017 12:40:34 GMT
Hello,
Here is how I can see the things of my point of view. Maybe, that can be a shared point of view, I don't know.
At the beginning, there is the forum with one project in relation with the Immersion of Duolingo. Then, at a given moment, there were others projects ( Projects X and SmartCAT ) which were come after. I didn't understand where they are exited to ( d'où ils sont sortis - you can correct me ). Surely, there were some private discussions, maybe they are projects already planned ( ? ). I dont know if the others not English native speakers share my feelings, maybe not. But, it's like if there had had ( il y avait eu ) a whole part of the discussions, of decisions unknown from the public, even if I was very present here ! I barely dare imagine that must be for the others. That it's true that my bad level in English don't help me to understand. However, I would like understand a bit more if it's possible.
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Post by SussexSoleil on Feb 12, 2017 1:11:54 GMT
Hello, Here is how I can see the things of my point of view. Maybe, that can be a shared point of view, I don't know. At the beginning, there is the forum with one project in relation with the Immersion of Duolingo. Then, at a given moment, there were others projects ( Projects X and SmartCAT ) which were come after. I didn't understand where they are exited to ( d'où ils sont sortis - you can correct me ). Surely, there were some private discussions, maybe they are projects already planned ( ? ). I dont know if the others not English native speakers share my feelings, maybe not. But, it's like if there had had ( il y avait eu ) a whole part of the discussions, of decisions unknown from the public, even if I was very present here ! I barely dare imagine that must be for the others. That it's true that my bad level in English don't help me to understand. However, I would like understand a bit more if it's possible.
Hello lakapsule44 ,
I am sorry my written French is not as good as my spoken French. (Je fais trop de fauts avec grammaire, orthographie, conjugaison ... et je n'ais pas le temps pour les corriger. Alors excusez-moi quand j'écris principalement en Anglais. Si vous ne comprenez pas, demandez encore, et j'essai de m'exprimer en francais aussi !)
- d'où ils sont sortis = where they came from
Sorry for the confusion. It is not something that was open for debate because of timescales, all the different uncoordinated activities going on and, in my case, a degree of commercial secrecy. As you know, the very sudden termination of Immersion was met by a number of separate actions by private individuals, all working on their own or in small groups.
- Firstly, JoThelan set up this website, entirely her own initiative as I understand it, and thank goodness for that.
- Secondly, a petition by ifphigenia to Luis, asking him to reinstate Immersion.
- Fourthly, I went off and tried to find a closer equivalent to Duolingo Immersion and came up with SmartCAT, which has been trialled with the help of a few invited members from Communitytranslation forum, including most of the above. And yes, there have been private discussions you will not have seen published on the forum boards, but conducted through private messaging. So how SmartCAT came into being may appear to be unclear to many of you.
- There may be yet more initiatives, we are not yet aware of.
As to Project X, which is actually the project to set up SmartCAT for use by Community Translation members, I asked Jo for permission to use this website to help launch and coordinate this facility, and she kindly agreed.
However, SmartCAT itself is commercial translation software. It is not there simply for people to practice their language skills, and I wanted to make sure that SmartCAT understood how we were proposing to use their platform, before we start invading their website. Hence some of the additional secrecy surrounding SmartCAT. Having now had a written response to my initial proposal to SmartCAT, I am able to discuss it in some more detail here, but it is not an initiative being driven through public debate on this forum.
Put simply, the SmartCAT project is an option I am trying to offer (and privately funding in a very small way), to provide a more Immersion-like interface familiar to ex-Duolingo members, rather than start from the widely-used Google Docs office software and adapt its features for use in collaborative translation.
Project X / SmartCat is not endorsed by Communitytranslation, and is not designed to replace Google Docs as a means of translation, but I hope it will become a viable alternative for those that preferred the more Immersion-like interface. There is also the possibility that those using SmartCAT may want to sign up directly as paid freelance translators with SmartCAT when they feel ready.
I hope that puts Project X and SmartCAT into context for you. If you, or anyone else reading this wants to have a go on SmartCAT to find out more about how it operates, please PM me with an email address and I will send you an invite.
* I am not sure about how the use of Google Docs came into being. If I am wrong or failed to mention any of the initial contributors, please let me know and I will try to correct this post.
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Post by reboot on Feb 12, 2017 11:43:11 GMT
Who can upload texts to Smartcat?
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Post by SussexSoleil on Feb 12, 2017 11:49:37 GMT
Who can upload texts to Smartcat? At the moment only Project Managers have the authority to do this. If you want to set up and manage your own Projects and invite Translators to work on them, just let me know. Otherwise, if there is a specific document you want off the internet and it is copyright free, I will upload it for you and give you the link. |
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Post by JoThelan on Feb 12, 2017 14:00:24 GMT
lakapsule44 and SussexSoleil I can explain how the use of Google Docs came into being. When the announcement that Immersion would not return was given on that Thursday, there was a lot of uproar, to the point of people saying that they would leave Duolingo. Personally, I see the community as being Duolingo's greatest strength, and wanted to see if it was possible to prevent it from being torn apart. To do that, we would need some kind of platform that would provide us with two things: 1) the ability to interact as a community and 2) the ability to translate. After some late night discussion with friend, a forum used in conjunction with Google Docs seemed to me the best way to accomplish both goals. A forum would allow us to interact, and my experience of collaborating with others on Google Docs gave me hope that it would be a good platform for translation. It is important to note that my computer and internet knowledge is somewhat limited, so I may not have chosen the best platforms to accomplish these goals.
However, it was only a late night discussion, and I didn't necessarily plan to attempt anything as it was just an idea. But as Friday worn on, it became more and more clear that there was no hope that Immersion would return. Also more and more people were beginning to say that they would leave. So, in an attempt to calm things down, I created the forum and made a few posts of how it would be run. Honestly, I expected that maybe 50 people maximum would be interested in joining. I had no idea that it would interest so many people. Since it has interested so many people, I have had to make some adjustments as things progressed. SussexSoleil knew of a translation platform more similar to Immersion, but needed time to get it working. I have brought on moderators. We have made policies and added extra categories, folders, and sub-folders. And I'm sure that I could add other things to my list of adjustments. My idea was only a stopgap measure, meaning that it was only a temporary solution to the problem. However, as we have seen, there has been a lot of interest in this solution. So, myself, the moderators, and a few others have been making adjustments in order to make this a more permanent solution with different options based on different needs and desires. Google Docs provides us with the opportunity to translate and learn how to translate on a community level. SmartCAT provides us with the opportunity to translate on a commercial level.
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Post by lakapsule44 on Feb 12, 2017 16:54:17 GMT
Hello SussexSoleil and @jothelan, I have really liked yours interventions. It's like a summary of all what happened until now. By the way, your message are very clear. Now, I can put all of it into context [ hope I said well ]. SussexSoleil, later I will be curious to see how that works. Thanks you both for your good job here. |
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Post by reboot on Feb 12, 2017 18:43:48 GMT
Thank you both, Jo and SsxSoleil ( plus all the others) to allow us to keep contact. It has obviously worked and some people seem to be smoothing the path so we get less confused with the different options.
I should think both solutions are viable and no reason not to switch from one to the other. The main thing is to keep the contact and work together
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